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Thread: Women and men

  1. #1
    Adnimistrator Jupiter 7's Avatar
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    Question Women and men

    No arguing that there are some basic, biological differences between us. But to what extent are some of these preceived differences just social constructs, i.e. not biology at all, but categories of behaviour that we impose on women and men that are not biologically determined at all?

    Examples would include a woman's supposedly 'natural' tendency to protect and nurture children, which I think is a social construct and not a biological tendency. Or men's association with aggression, which again, I think is largely a social construct having little to do with biology.

    On the other hand, you have people who think otherwise - men's aggressive tendencies being down to testosterone for example, or women's protective insticts towards children being a result of their hormones. What do you all think? :confused:



  2. #2
    woooooooo Hoopymo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Men getting boners.



    Also i think the equality of sexes ideal, i'm not against it or anything don't get me wrong but in most of the species the male is the dominant one.

  3. #3
    Squirrel!!! angiebowie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    I think that you can sculpt and mould someone personality and morals on the way you raise them, or by imposing social stereotypes upon them, but largley the differences are hormonal, and our brains work totally differently because of this. I believe men are naturally more aggressive, women are naturally more emotional and likely to cry, women have a very protective instinct toward children and are born with a strong maternal instinct. I believe that when these stereotypical qualities are not in men/women it is because of a hormonal imbalance, either cause by drugs/ trauma/ depression.


    Cheers Cashy!!!

  4. #4
    Squirrel!!! angiebowie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopymo View Post
    Men getting boners.



    Also i think the equality of sexes ideal, i'm not against it or anything don't get me wrong but in most of the species the male is the dominant one.
    Thats because a mans ideology is to be succesful in front of peers, be the alpha male, be looked up to...

    women are not without ambitions but a woman mainly wants to be happy healthy and comfortable
    Last edited by angiebowie; 29-05-2009 at 01:24 PM.

  5. #5
    woooooooo Hoopymo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Who here believes our morals or heteronomous that than autonomous ?

  6. #6
    Squirrel!!! angiebowie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    with fear of sounding stupid

    can you rephrase that please?

  7. #7
    woooooooo Hoopymo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Oh, no problem.


    Who believe our moral ideals come from god and the bible rather than humans forming them over time?

  8. #8
    I live for Glasgow Celtic clagan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Quote Originally Posted by angiebowie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hoopymo View Post
    Men getting boners.



    Also i think the equality of sexes ideal, i'm not against it or anything don't get me wrong but in most of the species the male is the dominant one.

    women are not without ambitions but a woman mainly wants to be happy healthy and comfortable
    if only that was true

  9. #9
    Squirrel!!! angiebowie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Hmmm, perhaps a long time ago yes, but not now, I think a lot of people broke away from religion for that very reason, because we should not be spoonfed what is moral and right, we should be allowed to develop as our own person, with guidance from things and people in our every day life.



    I dont believe in god, I dont find some Christain ideals particularly moral, and the bible is not a tool I would be using to help instill good morals and principals into my children

  10. #10
    woooooooo Hoopymo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Quote Originally Posted by angiebowie View Post
    Hmmm, perhaps a long time ago yes, but not now, I think a lot of people broke away from religion for that very reason, because we should not be spoonfed what is moral and right, we should be allowed to develop as our own person, with guidance from things and people in our every day life.



    I dont believe in god, I dont find some Christain ideals particularly moral, and the bible is not a tool I would be using to help instill good morals and principals into my children
    Suppose that brings up the euphyro dilemma


    "Is something good because god says it's good, or does god say it's good because it is good"

    Which leaves 2 factors.


    God is arbitrarily telling us what is right and wrong and that's no reason to believe it (angies point) which i agree with.

    Or

    There is something above god that decides what's good or bad which means we shouldn't believe god.

  11. #11
    Squirrel!!! angiebowie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Quote Originally Posted by clagan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by angiebowie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hoopymo View Post
    Men getting boners.



    Also i think the equality of sexes ideal, i'm not against it or anything don't get me wrong but in most of the species the male is the dominant one.

    women are not without ambitions but a woman mainly wants to be happy healthy and comfortable
    if only that was true

    Well thats what I want from life, and that what I believe most women would say they want from life.

    However thats only my belief, I also cannot comprehend women who say they dont want children, beause I cannot imagine my life without children, i want a whole load of them!!

  12. #12
    Squirrel!!! angiebowie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopymo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by angiebowie View Post
    Hmmm, perhaps a long time ago yes, but not now, I think a lot of people broke away from religion for that very reason, because we should not be spoonfed what is moral and right, we should be allowed to develop as our own person, with guidance from things and people in our every day life.



    I dont believe in god, I dont find some Christain ideals particularly moral, and the bible is not a tool I would be using to help instill good morals and principals into my children
    Suppose that brings up the euphyro dilemma


    "Is something good because god says it's good, or does god say it's good because it is good"

    Which leaves 2 factors.


    God is arbitrarily telling us what is right and wrong and that's no reason to believe it (angies point) which i agree with.

    Or

    There is something above god that decides what's good or bad which means we shouldn't believe god.

    another difference between men and women,

    women stay on topic,

    men dont :p

  13. #13
    woooooooo Hoopymo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Oh you.




    WOuld anyone say either sex has a generally better humour?

  14. #14
    Squirrel!!! angiebowie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    some women are door faced bastards, then again so are some men,

    so no, i dont think so

  15. #15
    Semi-Benevolent Dictator Euskadi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Men have a way better sense of humour. 90% of the time it's girls who will stare at you blankly when you tell a joke. Also, a man's idea of good craic is going down the pub for a bit of banter with his mates. A woman's idea is sitting having coffee talking about celebrities with her friends. Generalisations, of course, but they come from experience.

  16. #16
    Squirrel!!! angiebowie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    I was born in the wrong body or something

  17. #17
    Sheabhoy08 Sheabhoy08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Well,if i bled for a week i would die,ah mean how the fuck can you trust someone that bleeds for a week and does'nt die!!!that for me is a major difference!!joke by the way!!

  18. #18
    Bhoy's Hero Shakethebarley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Quote Originally Posted by Euskal Herria View Post
    Men have a way better sense of humour. 90% of the time it's girls who will stare at you blankly when you tell a joke. Also, a man's idea of good craic is going down the pub for a bit of banter with his mates. A woman's idea is sitting having coffee talking about celebrities with her friends. Generalisations, of course, but they come from experience.
    I'd agree with this. We have totally different ideas of fun usually... not all the time.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Women and men

    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter 7 View Post
    No arguing that there are some basic, biological differences between us. But to what extent are some of these preceived differences just social constructs, i.e. not biology at all, but categories of behaviour that we impose on women and men that are not biologically determined at all?

    Examples would include a woman's supposedly 'natural' tendency to protect and nurture children, which I think is a social construct and not a biological tendency. Or men's association with aggression, which again, I think is largely a social construct having little to do with biology.

    On the other hand, you have people who think otherwise - men's aggressive tendencies being down to testosterone for example, or women's protective insticts towards children being a result of their hormones. What do you all think? :confused:
    Good question.

    I think I agree with the gist of what you say. I think that a huge percentage of what we think about gender, and the world in general in truth, is socially constructed. Many things which we think of as being 'true' or 'right' or 'normal' are not at all. They are almost arbitary ideas which somehow in the big struggle of ideas which is history have managed to somehow come out on top of the heap proclaiming themselves as 'how it should be'. I think people, in general, have lost sight of the extent to which we are 'conditioned' to think the way we do.

    That said I think the two examples you cite are quite natural. I do believe that men are naturally more aggressive than women. I also believe that since women carry the unborn child for 9 months (that's quite an investment) there is a natural motherly instinct to nurture the child.

  20. #20
    Adnimistrator Jupiter 7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Women and men

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter 7 View Post
    No arguing that there are some basic, biological differences between us. But to what extent are some of these preceived differences just social constructs, i.e. not biology at all, but categories of behaviour that we impose on women and men that are not biologically determined at all?

    Examples would include a woman's supposedly 'natural' tendency to protect and nurture children, which I think is a social construct and not a biological tendency. Or men's association with aggression, which again, I think is largely a social construct having little to do with biology.

    On the other hand, you have people who think otherwise - men's aggressive tendencies being down to testosterone for example, or women's protective insticts towards children being a result of their hormones. What do you all think? :confused:
    Good question.

    I think I agree with the gist of what you say. I think that a huge percentage of what we think about gender, and the world in general in truth, is socially constructed. Many things which we think of as being 'true' or 'right' or 'normal' are not at all. They are almost arbitary ideas which somehow in the big struggle of ideas which is history have managed to somehow come out on top of the heap proclaiming themselves as 'how it should be'. I think people, in general, have lost sight of the extent to which we are 'conditioned' to think the way we do.

    That said I think the two examples you cite are quite natural. I do believe that men are naturally more aggressive than women. I also believe that since women carry the unborn child for 9 months (that's quite an investment) there is a natural motherly instinct to nurture the child.
    Some good points Martin , and there is no right or wrong answer chief - which is why I felt this would make for an interesting discussion - the likes of which the Lisbon Lions forum will never know, especially now in my absence.

    Thinking of motherhood in terms of it being a lifelong emotional investment, then of course a mothers love will feel profoundly natural. But what I am suggesting is that those feelings are misleading. If we take the emotion of love for example, I read somehwere that one way of defining it is as being constructed from culturally available repertoires of feelings. So, the fact that the mother loves her children, and feels bonded to them - that is not in question. What is however, is where those feelings come from. I suggest that these feelings originate from the way that society is organised, as opposed to being biological in origin - and also what is causing the confusion is a social construct - which comes from accepted social practices of mothering - which is, I hope you wil agree, a gendered role. Girls pick up this shit starting from an early age, it's everywhere around them - and they come to expect it for themselves. So I'm saying that society dictates the norms, and girls identify with and adopt the normative behaviour. Either way, mum still loves her kids. I just think those feelings come from somewhere other than the fact that biologically she is a woman, and that if society were organised totally differently - say some sort of parallel universe - it would be just as easy for men to identify with those behaviours instead of women.

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