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Thread: What's your?

  1. #21
    Celtic Legend Lars1916's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigley View Post
    What don't you agree with, just wondering.
    It's more stuff on local level, as in my own area of Dublin

  2. #22
    the last heretic Stagger Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercoaster View Post
    How will the working classes be any worse off from Brexit?
    The economy is going to take an absolute tanking whichever way we come out of this mess.

    If it's a hard/no deal brexit: 8% lower GDP, £158b less/year, 2.8m fewer jobs
    Outside single market and customs union: 5% lower GDP, £99b less/year, 1.75m fewer jobs
    Inside single market through EEA: 2% lower GDP, £39b less/year, 700,000 fewer jobs
    Stay in EU: GDP grows at current rate, no impact on jobs.

    Every scenario, barring not leaving, leaves the economy fucked with fewer jobs. The working class will be in those jobs currently and will lose them, therefore, being worse off.

    It's a shit show no matter how we look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercoaster View Post
    Can't imagine anyone voted No purely to stick it to the SNP. Not heard that one before.
    There's an absolute ton of them, particularly in the west coast of Scotland, who voted no for that very reason - "fuck the SNP, rule brittania..."
    Last edited by Stagger Lee; 08-02-2018 at 09:36 AM.

  3. #23

    Default Re: What's your?

    Is that not just common sense though? like if you have so much of your economy tied in something and leave then it's obviously going to get considerably worse initially before it gets better.

    Same with voting yes for Scotland, if we got Indy then it would get worse at the start for a while but the whole point is an opportunity to build your country it won't happen overnight.

    Don't like Westminster or EU tbh, found it quite strange when lots of people wanted out of Britain but wanted to keep in the EU. Can understand the SNP doing it as in this Brexit scenario they can attempt to make more friends in the EU as they are being opportunist and waiting for right conditions for a 2nd vote.
    Has anyone seen my facts??

    Lofty said Jameeys maw loves dick but Loftys maw choked on her sick.

  4. #24

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger Lee View Post
    The economy is going to take an absolute tanking whichever way we come out of this mess.

    If it's a hard/no deal brexit: 8% lower GDP, £158b less/year, 2.8m fewer jobs
    Outside single market and customs union: 5% lower GDP, £99b less/year, 1.75m fewer jobs
    Inside single market through EEA: 2% lower GDP, £39b less/year, 700,000 fewer jobs
    Stay in EU: GDP grows at current rate, no impact on jobs.

    Every scenario, barring not leaving, leaves the economy fucked with fewer jobs. The working class will be in those jobs currently and will lose them, therefore, being worse off.

    It's a shit show no matter how we look at it.



    There's an absolute ton of them, particularly in the west coast of Scotland, who voted no for that very reason - "fuck the SNP, rule brittania..."
    Where are these jobs going to be lost, though? What sectors?

    Is it bureaucratic middle-class jobs? Is that why the chattering classes are fighting so hard to Remain?

    If it is jobs that the working classes currently do like zero hour minimum wage then I don't think they would care too much. I'd imagine they are thinking after the initial crash then once groth starts again the jobs on offer to the working classes will pay more and future generations prosper.

    People voted to stick it to the SNP? Who? Plenty voted to remain in the union and uphold the crown but I don't think that is who Euskadi was talking about. Only ones who I think may have voted to stick it to the SNP are our own Green Brigade who only seem to bother with Scottish politics when it is the OBFA.

  5. #25

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticbhoy1990 View Post
    Don't like Westminster or EU tbh, found it quite strange when lots of people wanted out of Britain but wanted to keep in the EU. Can understand the SNP doing it as in this Brexit scenario they can attempt to make more friends in the EU as they are being opportunist and waiting for right conditions for a 2nd vote.
    Majority of them thought like that because that is where the liberal press directed them. BBC are currently in bother because of their pro-Brexit reportage. Also because Nicola and the SNP gave them the nod too. Amount of cult-like SNP followers is actually embarrassing.

  6. #26

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercoaster View Post
    Majority of them thought like that because that is where the liberal press directed them. BBC are currently in bother because of their pro-Brexit reportage. Also because Nicola and the SNP gave them the nod too. Amount of cult-like SNP followers is actually embarrassing.
    SNP are a bunch of snobby bastards pretending to be common. You always seen when Salmond was in charge them meeting in big fancy mansions with their tweed jacket type cunts.

    Like mad propaganda. You know the one that always shows the wilderness of Scotland in TV to make it look good? kinda like that. Show any "civilised" area in Scotland and you will see it's a fucking dump.

    We don't even really have a culture. A few shitty kilt shops in Edinburgh, grass and trees is what we get advertised because the rest of our culture is a mess.

  7. #27

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticbhoy1990 View Post
    SNP are a bunch of snobby bastards pretending to be common. You always seen when Salmond was in charge them meeting in big fancy mansions with their tweed jacket type cunts.

    Like mad propaganda. You know the one that always shows the wilderness of Scotland in TV to make it look good? kinda like that. Show any "civilised" area in Scotland and you will see it's a fucking dump.

    We don't even really have a culture. A few shitty kilt shops in Edinburgh, grass and trees is what we get advertised because the rest of our culture is a mess.
    SNP would have you believe we live in some sort of social utopia. Identity politics and green stuff is what they are trying to impose as some sort of culture. The actual infrastructure of the country has been decimated. Granted Tory austerity is to blame for that, but they have done nothing of note to mitigate it.

  8. #28
    the last heretic Stagger Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercoaster View Post
    Where are these jobs going to be lost, though? What sectors?

    Is it bureaucratic middle-class jobs? Is that why the chattering classes are fighting so hard to Remain?

    If it is jobs that the working classes currently do like zero hour minimum wage then I don't think they would care too much. I'd imagine they are thinking after the initial crash then once groth starts again the jobs on offer to the working classes will pay more and future generations prosper.

    People voted to stick it to the SNP? Who? Plenty voted to remain in the union and uphold the crown but I don't think that is who Euskadi was talking about. Only ones who I think may have voted to stick it to the SNP are our own Green Brigade who only seem to bother with Scottish politics when it is the OBFA.
    The newly released report, the one the tories didn’t actually want released to the public, shows that the areas that will be hit worst are mainly all working class, low income areas who ironically voted for brexit, in the main.
    These areas all still have a fair bit of manufacturing jobs along with other sectors, and a significant amount of them will be lost resulting in heavy job losses for the working class and this is projected to last at least 15 years.
    Scotland, Wales, NI, the north east and midlands of England are all going to be hit particularly hard and a lot of the jobs that’ll be lost are actual jobs - not zero hours contract or whatever.

    And don’t kid yourself on that no one voted no to spite the snp - there were loads of low iq, serious fuckwits who don’t it for that very reason. Sadly, like you say, some of them were Celtic fans unable to see the bigger picture and just focused solely on the OBFA. Wallopers of the highest order.

  9. #29

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger Lee View Post
    The newly released report, the one the tories didn’t actually want released to the public, shows that the areas that will be hit worst are mainly all working class, low income areas who ironically voted for brexit, in the main.
    These areas all still have a fair bit of manufacturing jobs along with other sectors, and a significant amount of them will be lost resulting in heavy job losses for the working class and this is projected to last at least 15 years.
    Scotland, Wales, NI, the north east and midlands of England are all going to be hit particularly hard and a lot of the jobs that’ll be lost are actual jobs - not zero hours contract or whatever.

    And don’t kid yourself on that no one voted no to spite the snp - there were loads of low iq, serious fuckwits who don’t it for that very reason. Sadly, like you say, some of them were Celtic fans unable to see the bigger picture and just focused solely on the OBFA. Wallopers of the highest order.
    Aye, as I said these manufacturing jobs are not jobs the working classes will grieve for. Go along to any of these factories and the majority of the workforce are students or immigrants. This is because they are minimum wage and, or, zero-hour contracts. And even the working class people who do do these jobs will not be scared of losing them because life on minimum benefits isn't much worse. If you go on the ground into the worst parts of Glasgow you would realise that life literally cannot get any worse for these people.

    Nah, I don't think it is even a significant minority. Only ones I would even consider would be OBFA numpties but even they would have surely realised the Yes vote was independent from the SNP.

  10. #30
    the last heretic Stagger Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercoaster View Post
    Aye, as I said these manufacturing jobs are not jobs the working classes will grieve for. Go along to any of these factories and the majority of the workforce are students or immigrants. This is because they are minimum wage and, or, zero-hour contracts. And even the working class people who do do these jobs will not be scared of losing them because life on minimum benefits isn't much worse. If you go on the ground into the worst parts of Glasgow you would realise that life literally cannot get any worse for these people.

    Nah, I don't think it is even a significant minority. Only ones I would even consider would be OBFA numpties but even they would have surely realised the Yes vote was independent from the SNP.
    Nonsense are all those jobs zero hours or taken by immigrant or students. The vast majority of them will be taken up by locals who have lived in the area for years and rely on that source of income to provide for their family. In fact, after a slight bit of research, I’ve found that immigrants only account for ~10% of workers in UK manufacturing jobs.

    People won’t be scared of losing their jobs because benefits will see them ok? Come on, man, you know as well as I do that anyone in their right mind would rather be getting paid a half decent wage to do a shitty job in a factory than go to the job centre and jump through hoops to get a fraction of that money in jobseekers, or whatever it’s getting called these days.

  11. #31

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercoaster View Post
    SNP would have you believe we live in some sort of social utopia. Identity politics and green stuff is what they are trying to impose as some sort of culture. The actual infrastructure of the country has been decimated. Granted Tory austerity is to blame for that, but they have done nothing of note to mitigate it.
    The only way you could back SNP up on that is to argue that well their main aim was indy for us. Only when a Scottish gov gets full power could they really be judged.

    Like even if you had a genuinely good party in charge for Scotland, you would still be fucked left and right by Westminster anyway, working with 2 hands tied behind your back.

    Not saying I mean SNP are good, just looking at the bigger picture in general.

  12. #32

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger Lee View Post
    Nonsense are all those jobs zero hours or taken by immigrant or students. The vast majority of them will be taken up by locals who have lived in the area for years and rely on that source of income to provide for their family. In fact, after a slight bit of research, I’ve found that immigrants only account for ~10% of workers in UK manufacturing jobs.

    People won’t be scared of losing their jobs because benefits will see them ok? Come on, man, you know as well as I do that anyone in their right mind would rather be getting paid a half decent wage to do a shitty job in a factory than go to the job centre and jump through hoops to get a fraction of that money in jobseekers, or whatever it’s getting called these days.
    You seem to be hard of reading. I acknowledged some of them will be undertaken by working class people, but my contention is losing them will make no change to their lifestyles. Let's see that research then? I can name you a good few factories where almost all the shop floor workforce are immigrants. Immigration is why the liberals are up in arms here. They don't want to lose their cheap labour.

    Yeah, pretty much. The vast majority of working class people are not working for a half decent wage. Say a young guy working for minimum wage and living alone. That's about £250 bucks a week. On the broo the minimum they would expect to get is about £150. So they are up by about £100. Take travel to work off that and council tax and they are making £50 a week for working. If I were them I would have voted Brexit in the hope that the single market and free labour end and working conditions improve.

  13. #33

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticbhoy1990 View Post
    The only way you could back SNP up on that is to argue that well their main aim was indy for us. Only when a Scottish gov gets full power could they really be judged.

    Like even if you had a genuinely good party in charge for Scotland, you would still be fucked left and right by Westminster anyway, working with 2 hands tied behind your back.

    Not saying I mean SNP are good, just looking at the bigger picture in general.
    Aye they definitely have their hands tied behind their back but waste a hell of a lot of money to appease the middle-class electorate. Universal benefits must waste tens of millions a year when that could be better spent topping up benefits and offsetting Tory austerity.

  14. #34
    the last heretic Stagger Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercoaster View Post
    You seem to be hard of reading.
    You seem to be hard of understanding

    I acknowledged some of them will be undertaken by working class people
    9 in 10 is significantly more than 'some of them'

    losing them will make no change to their lifestyles
    Minimum wage for 40 hour week: £288
    Jobseeker/week: £57.90 (20.1% of £288) for under 25's
    Jobseeker/week: £73.10 (25.4% of £288) for over 25's.
    If you're trying to tell me that people would be happy getting that amount less/week and still maintain the same lifestyle, you're talking absolute pish.

    I can name you a good few factories where almost all the shop floor workforce are immigrants
    Go on then, name me one. I can name you plenty where about 90% of the workforce are locals.

    The vast majority of working class people are not working for a half decent wage
    I can agree with this - they should be getting a living wage, and even that isn't enough imo.

  15. #35

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger Lee View Post
    You seem to be hard of understanding



    9 in 10 is significantly more than 'some of them'



    Minimum wage for 40 hour week: £288
    Jobseeker/week: £57.90 (20.1% of £288) for under 25's
    Jobseeker/week: £73.10 (25.4% of £288) for over 25's.
    If you're trying to tell me that people would be happy getting that amount less/week and still maintain the same lifestyle, you're talking absolute pish.



    Go on then, name me one. I can name you plenty where about 90% of the workforce are locals.



    I can agree with this - they should be getting a living wage, and even that isn't enough imo.
    I understand perfectly well. Been reading and watching liberals spew it out for over a year.

    I asked you for your research? Where did you find the report that says immigrants only do 10% of manufacturing jobs. That's farcical. To say that working-class people make up 90% of manufacturing jobs is completely uniformed and just middle-class propaganda. Maybe one day but not anymore.

    This factory has a workforce that as it least 75% immigrants: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-42989526 Once was a massive part of the local community/economy. Was heavily unionised and folk could make a real corn and feed a family off their wage. Generations worked there, until about 10-15 years ago when free-labour and employment deregulation went off its head.

    Well why did you say working-class people are working for half decent wages?

    Yes, the British Neoliberal economy will absolutely be worse off leaving the EU. However my solidarity is, and always will be, with the working-classes. I am not an Uncle Tom who jumped ship when I got salaried.

  16. #36
    the last heretic Stagger Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercoaster View Post
    I asked you for your research
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...rmarketuk/2016

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39576112

    Any quick google search will have told you this, it literally takes seconds to find.

    This factory has a workforce that as it least 75% immigrants
    Where have you plucked this 75% figure from? There's absolutely no mention of it in the link you provided. Just making up shit to suit your narrative?

    Well why did you say working-class people are working for half decent wages
    It's relative, ain't it. Minimum wage is half decent compared to jobseekers allowance, but that's by the by seeing as there are plenty of good employers out there, in manufacturing/factories, who pay more than the minimum wage. Not every one of them is a Mike Ashely wannabe who will underpay their staff. In fact, my brother in law who works in a factory down the Port is on damn good money. Same when I was working in factories in Greenock - IBM, Mimtec, National Semiconductors and a fair few others - I was on more than the required minimum wage in every single one of them.

    I am not an Uncle Tom who jumped ship when I got salaried
    Not sure what you're trying to insinuate here, if anything.

  17. #37

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger Lee View Post
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...rmarketuk/2016

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39576112

    Any quick google search will have told you this, it literally takes seconds to find.



    Where have you plucked this 75% figure from? There's absolutely no mention of it in the link you provided. Just making up shit to suit your narrative?



    It's relative, ain't it. Minimum wage is half decent compared to jobseekers allowance, but that's by the by seeing as there are plenty of good employers out there, in manufacturing/factories, who pay more than the minimum wage. Not every one of them is a Mike Ashely wannabe who will underpay their staff. In fact, my brother in law who works in a factory down the Port is on damn good money. Same when I was working in factories in Greenock - IBM, Mimtec, National Semiconductors and a fair few others - I was on more than the required minimum wage in every single one of them.



    Not sure what you're trying to insinuate here, if anything.
    You clearly don't really know what you are talking about here. Evidenced by you running around looking for stats on the internet.

    First off forgot to point out earlier that when you were looking up figures to defend the national minimum wage you forgot housing benefit. A single person would get around £80 a week on that on top of their JSA taking them up to roughly £150 a week. As I said take travel off that £288 and council tax, and money for lunches etc, and said person is down another £100. So they are working for about £50 a week. They didn't tell you this on the BBC did they?

    I asked where you were getting your figures because I thought it would be from the BBC. The same network currently being investigated for pro-Brexit reportage. I don't believe them.

    The 75% figure was a very conservative estimate. I won't tell you how I know because I don't like revealing too much about myself on here but lets just say I would lay my life on it. That factory was literally the industrial hub for the area. When the labour markets opened up to Eastern Europeans these schmucks stopped paying people a decent wage and brought in cheap labour. As is the mechanics of Neoliberalism.

    It really makes me fucking ill to read someone - who believes themselves to be socialist but clearly doesn't understand the principles of the word - to be talking up minimum wage. You clearly have no understanding of poverty and fair enough but please don't try to pontificate on it to spread your liberal propaganda.

    I believe you when you talk about folk being able to eek out a living down in Greenock back in the day but you are talking a long time agi. I guess over 15 years? When the factory I mentioned above was still sustaining the local economy? Things have changed.

    I am trying to insinuate that you are a working-class boy done good who is oblivious to the deprivation of your own people.
    Last edited by Lolercoaster; 09-02-2018 at 12:35 PM.

  18. #38
    the last heretic Stagger Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercoaster View Post
    You clearly don't really know what you are talking about here. Evidenced by you running around looking for stats on the internet.

    First off forgot to point out earlier that when you were looking up figures to defend the national minimum wage you forgot housing benefit. A single person would get around £80 a week on that on top of their JSA taking them up to roughly £150 a week. As I said take travel off that £288 and council tax, and money for lunches etc, and said person is down another £100. So they are working for about £50 a week. They didn't tell you this on the BBC did they?

    I asked where you were getting your figures because I thought it would be from the BBC. The same network currently being investigated for pro-Brexit reportage. I don't believe them.

    The 75% figure was a very conservative estimate. I won't tell you how I know because I don't like revealing too much about myself on here but lets just say I would lay my life on it. That factory was literally the industrial hub for the area. When the labour markets opened up to Eastern Europeans these schmucks stopped paying people a decent wage and brought in cheap labour. As is the mechanics of Neoliberalism.

    It really makes me fucking ill to read someone - who believes themselves to be socialist but clearly doesn't understand the principles of the word - to be talking up minimum wage. You clearly have no understanding of poverty and fair enough but please don't try to pontificate on it to spread your liberal propaganda.

    I believe you when you talk about folk being able to eek out a living down in Greenock back in the day but you are talking a long time agi. I guess over 15 years? When the factory I mentioned above was still sustaining the local economy? Things have changed.

    I am trying to insinuate that you are a working-class boy done good who is oblivious to the deprivation of your own people.
    You really are a shit troll, must try harder lofters.

    So I don't know what I'm talking about because I 'ran to the internet' to back up my arguments? What a lot of shite. Is the ONS - you know the Office of National Statistics - not a good enough source for you? The BBC one was put up because I thought it might be closer to your level of understanding, given you don't mind posting articles from it either - articles, I might add, you can't even back up your daft assertions on. I provide reputable backing for mine while you just throw around wacky figures out of thin air and then refuse to back them up because you 'don't like revealing too much about yourself on here'. Have you any idea how hopelessly pathetic that statement makes you sound?

    Benefits - You do know that a single person on minimum wage is entitled to housing benefit too, don't you? Therefore increasing their disposable income and supplementing their wages more so than if they were just on benefits. I suspect you do know this though and are just looking for an argument and where have I 'talked up' the minimum wage? Did I not come out earlier and state that I don't think it's enough, don't even think the living wage is enough? Suppose you just like glossing over certain facts.

    Lastly, keep your 'prolier than thou' bollocks to yourself, chief. You're not the East End's version of Che fucking Guevara. You're a sad wee troll who really should be putting their energies into something more fulfilling.

  19. #39

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars1916 View Post
    It's more stuff on local level, as in my own area of Dublin
    Ok, not really republican stuff then, would love to see SF hold the balance of power in the Free State.
    We didnít just happen to support Celtic; Celtic is a part of us. Celtic for us is so much more than a football club. Celtic is an institution, an identity and a celebration of being Irish or being of Ireland. Celtic is a legacy passed from generation to generation. Celtic is a way of life.Ē

  20. #40

    Default Re: What's your?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger Lee View Post
    You really are a shit troll, must try harder lofters.

    So I don't know what I'm talking about because I 'ran to the internet' to back up my arguments? What a lot of shite. Is the ONS - you know the Office of National Statistics - not a good enough source for you? The BBC one was put up because I thought it might be closer to your level of understanding, given you don't mind posting articles from it either - articles, I might add, you can't even back up your daft assertions on. I provide reputable backing for mine while you just throw around wacky figures out of thin air and then refuse to back them up because you 'don't like revealing too much about yourself on here'. Have you any idea how hopelessly pathetic that statement makes you sound?

    Benefits - You do know that a single person on minimum wage is entitled to housing benefit too, don't you? Therefore increasing their disposable income and supplementing their wages more so than if they were just on benefits. I suspect you do know this though and are just looking for an argument and where have I 'talked up' the minimum wage? Did I not come out earlier and state that I don't think it's enough, don't even think the living wage is enough? Suppose you just like glossing over certain facts.

    Lastly, keep your 'prolier than thou' bollocks to yourself, chief. You're not the East End's version of Che fucking Guevara. You're a sad wee troll who really should be putting their energies into something more fulfilling.
    No, I don't trust the ONS. Same way I never during Indy. They cook figures. Manufacturing must be getting stretched into other sectors. In production lines all over Scotland the majority of the workforce are immigrants. And my level of understanding? I am clearly your intellectual superior, laddie.

    You use the statistical apparatus of the British state to try and win your argument. You will have to excuse me rolling my eyes.

    A single person on minimum wage is absolutely not entitled to benefits!!!! Utter pish, where you got fed that I don't know. They can apply for it but are lucky to get £20 a week toward rent. It rarely happens.

    You don't have a clue what I do or how I come to know what I know. Resorting to middle-class pejoratives for the working classes tells me all I need to know about you, Uncle Tom.

    Fuck Brexit and all the liberal trans advocating it.

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